S.L.: No. I know about this fact. Such information was supplied to Americans by Russians at that time, so it is a well-known situation, it was published. But how the developments were extended in this respect, how they were resolved, I don’t know. I really don’t know. And I don’t know that something was published on this account. Maybe yes, I don’t know.

M.B.: No. I just, I’m curious. And another curious question. If I understand correctly, Professor, you were a member of the Russian President’s Council for Judicial Reforms. Was that correct? Were you appointed to the Council of Judicial Reform, law reform, back in the ’90s, and reappointed for 2000–2004?

S.L.: Yes, I was. I was a member of that council for several years, yes. And the chairman of that council was Professor Tumanov.

M.B.: Can you tell us about the name of the council, and the purpose? What was the purpose of that council?

S.L.: Let me see, how to translate… it was the Council for Perfection of Judicial System. It was [speaks in Russian]. It was the Council for Perfection of Judicial System, actually.

M.B.: After the breakup of the Soviet Union?

S.L.: Yes. And the idea of that council was to consider certain controversial matters which arise in the activities of courts. Various aspects. And then to provide recommendation to the President of Russia, recommending to make certain steps to overcome this difficulty, some defects in the work of our courts. That was the purpose of that meetings. I hope that some recommendations were taken into account.

M.B.: Professor, I would like to ask one question about the Polar Star. In 2003 you were awarded the Order of the Polar Star by the Swedish King. Could you tell us about this, and your feelings about that?

S.L.: What happened, of course, is an important factor in my life. And I remember how it happened. I was sitting in my room at home, and I received many letters and emails and so on, and were looking at them. And all of a sudden, I see a message from Ulf Franke, who says that “You have been proposed to be awarded by Polar Star, and the King will be prepared to meet you on such and such date in Stockholm. If you agree.” I could not understand, actually, immediately, what does it mean? Then I started to read it more carefully, such several lines in that message from Ulf Franke. I immediately sent an answer to Ulf Franke. “I’ll be happy to come to Stockholm at that date, or any other date that might be convenient to the King, if he really is prepared to meet me.” And Ulf Franke answered that also American lawyer Howard Holtzmann was invited for that meeting, and Chinese Professor Houzhi Tang, they are also invited to come to that date. And of course, I took my wife and my grandson, and we flew to Stockholm, to meet the King. [phone ringing] Excuse me, I’ll… [speaks on phone] You know, and we stayed in the best hotel in Stockholm, we ourselves, of course, and in Grand Hotel, and Howard was there, and the Chinese Professor was also there, and we went to meet the King. And it was something absolutely unusually unexpected to me. And we met the King, and there were photographers, and we shook hands with him, and then he gave to each of us, he gave the Order. It was something very special, of course, and usually, we were told, that King for such meetings provide maybe 10–15 minutes. Usually. But this time, he put certain questions to us, to each 3 of us, and we tried to answer him, and he was interested in our answers, in discussing this problem, about arbitration in Stockholm, and about arbitration in China, in the United States, in Soviet Union, he was interested, he put certain questions and we tried to answer, as good as we can, and finally it was 40 minutes. And then we were given the pictures, and the pictures were made by a Chinese photographer, who was there. He was with the Chinese Professor. And so I have several pictures, of course, how the King hands over the Order to me and to others, and there is also on the backside, there is also my wife, and Carol, the wife of Howard Holtzmann so these pictures are particularly important for our family album. And in general, what does it mean? Of course, the question is, and why, what is the reason? Why the Swedish King decided to make such an award to you? What is the reason? And I say, as I understand, I have of course the Order of the King, signed by him, and I say the reason is that we helped to develop arbitration in general, and also for Sweden within our possibilities. That is the reason. And for me, of course, this award is of very particular importance, and honor.